In Passing: Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor "England Should be a Catholic Country again"

Yes, I know, the last person you would expect to hear this from. But here is the link to an interesting address.

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11 Responses to In Passing: Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor "England Should be a Catholic Country again"

  1. Terry Maher (Past Elder) says:

    That’s great. Change what church nobody goes to.

  2. Christine says:

    Hmmm. Last I looked Catholics were doing better in England than the establishment Anglicans.

    A raft of studies shows in fact that the English parish churches on the eve of the Reformation were vigorous, adaptable and popular. The laity had a wholesome piety and ready charity. The Episcopate was not corrupt and Erasmus himself thought early Tudor England the most enlightened place in Europe. And those monasteries, swept away with such zeal: along with them went the education, the medical care, and the hospitality they provided for the love of God.

    My point is that the Reformation, notwithstanding its positive contribution, brought a tremendous loss to this country.

    Malcom Muggeridge would agree.



    • It’s a pity the Cardinal doesn’t cite his sources, one might then be better able to judge the veracity of his claims. If these conditions did prevail, it’s strange that as loyal an English Catholic as John Colet, Dean of St Paul’s, thought that the ‘wicked and indolent lives of the clergy’ were a greater danger to the Catholic faith in England than the Reformation.

      Meanwhile, back to the present, one suspects that even many English Catholics would shudder at the thought of RC supremacy in England – see my latest blog post for one of the reasons.

  3. Peter says:

    “Hmmm. Last I looked Catholics were doing better in England than the establishment Anglicans”

    Good news on that score though, didn’t the House of Lords just ‘vote’ a doctrinal change to allow same sex weddings?

    Since the Anglicans are now about as ‘relevant’ or aligned to society as they can be, and have abandoned everything that makes them different from society, I expect the numbers will come flooding back. Won’t they?

    • Peter,

      No, that is certainly not what happened. The House of Lords voted an amendment to remove civil prohibitions against same-sex ‘marriages’ being conducted with religious rites, and they did so despite the vociferous protests of the Lords Spiritual, those bishops of the C of E who sit in the House. To date, only Quakers, Unitarians and liberal synagogues have expressed interest in performing such ‘marriages’. I have recently blogged about the implications for Anglican clergy in the UK.

      • Peregrinus says:

        And just to clarify further, as a matte of UK law they are not same-sex marriages; they are civil unions, which share some of the characteristics of marriage but are explicitly not, as a matter of civil law, marriage.

        The law until now has been that a marriage may be celebrated in a church (synagogue, mosque, etc) but a civil union may not be registered there . The law is now to be changed so that a civil union can be registered in a church, etc. As Mark points out, not many churches are likely to offer the service.

  4. matthias says:

    Yes the English Catholic church was perhaps different to the other European churches,and the Reformation was “top down” unlike Luther’s ” “down up” -purely for the King’s own peronsla reasons. Perhaps if Wycliffe and the Lollards had gained greater influence,and not have lost the protection of John of Lancaster,that the reformation may have been deferred . However from the English reformation sprang
    – the kING JAMES Bible ,the Bible i learnt to read form as a child -and now we have the assorted fundamentalists who think it is of the devil to use any other .
    The Puritans that gave us parliamentary democracy- and laid the ground for parliamentary abuses,but also gave us that great writer John Bunyan .his Pilgrim’s Progress stands in contrast to a Britain that is for many a Pilgrim’s Regress. it should be required for all who stand for Christ to read the farwell speech of Bunyan’s character Mr Valiant for Truth.
    -The Clapham sect -Lord Shaftesbury and Wilberforce-that battled child and black slavery -and now we have the pendulum swiinging to where children and young people in Britain are given more rights and have a knife culture
    the Anglican Church -the beauty of the BOOK OF COMMON PRAYER and the 39 Articles ,the Society for the Propagating of the Gospel,the New Guinea Martyrs -and Rowan williams, a divided and insipid church and gay clergy in the face of Britain facing Islamisation,. possibly the next monarch ,who like Henry the 8th ,liked women,and who would become Defender of the Faiths -wonder if he would become Emir Charles rather than King Charles.
    Just some thoughts from a son of Enlgish anglicans

  5. harry says:

    How would the Roman Church handle woman bishops and priestess?

  6. Salvatore says:

    Hmmm. Does anyone know whether His Eminence was arguing pro or contra? With so much said about the “English Church” and so little about Catholicism I found it difficult to determine. ;)

  7. Schütz says:

    Interestingly, today’s “Good Weekend” in The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald has an article on parental use of corporal punishment entitled “The Odd Angry Smack”. Unfortunately not available online.

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